Research suggests that up to 15–20% of the U.S. population is neurodivergent. There has been a slow but vitally important rise in companies embracing neurodiversity. How can companies support neurodiversity in the workplace? What are some benefits of including neurodiverse employees? To address these questions, we are talking to successful business leaders who can share stories and insights from their experience about “Neurodiversity in the Workforce”. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Kathleen Marshall.
Kathleen Marshall, Director of Program Services at Anderson Center for Autism. As head of Anderson Center Consulting and Training (ACCT), Ms. Marshall empowers professionals, parents/caregivers, and community members with the tools and knowledge to better understand autism and other neurodiversities, with the goal of helping to develop more inclusive, accommodating environments in which that population can thrive. During her 25-year tenure with Anderson Center for Autism, Ms. Marshall has served as Education Specialist, Principal, Director of Education, Director of Children’s Services, and Division Director of Program Services. In addition, she was a Special Educator for fifteen years, working exclusively with students with complex learning and behavioral challenges.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive in, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your ‘backstory’ and how you ended up where you are?
Iwas inspired to pursue a career in special education for two reasons. From the time I was very young, I always knew I wanted to be a teacher — and even made my friends play ‘school’ on a regular basis!
But there was a young man who also greatly influenced my path. His father married a neighbor of ours; she had three daughters, and her new husband had a son who was a teenager with developmental disabilities. It was quite obvious to me, even when as a teen myself, that the family hadn’t been very welcoming. He’d wait at the bus stop with all of us, and his step-siblings seemed embarrassed by him. That had a profound impact on me — and my sister and I befriended him. All of these years later, I still see him from time to time — maybe at an area diner, where I’ll buy him lunch or dinner — and he knows exactly who I am. It’s been over 45 years, but he will always have a place in my heart. Seeing how he was treated really made me want to do something to support others like him. He now lives in a group home — and 25 years ago, I found my professional home at Anderson Center for Autism.
You are a successful leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
- The first thing that comes to mind, which has always been incredibly important to me, is to always be HONEST with the people with whom I work. As is the case with any company or agency, sometimes there are high-level changes in the works which will trickle down to everyone on staff, and I think it is critical to clearly articulate for people what is happening so that they know what to expect. Sometimes, as leaders, people fall into the “less is more” concept and assume that many on the team are “better off not knowing.” While I can understand that thought process at times, I believe it’s key to help everyone connect with the rationale behind a leadership choice. It takes the whole team to carry a mission forward — so everybody should understand exactly why an organization is taking a specific action or moving in a new direction, which means that you keep them in the loop!
- I never ask anyone to do something that I wouldn’t or couldn’t do myself. When I supervised the children’s residential program and school, if we were short-handed I felt that everyone — administrators included — needed to lend support. Whether cleaning up after dinner or helping the kids get ready for bed, whatever job needed to be done would be completed, regardless of the title or role of the person doing it. We should all jump in and help! And, as a former direct care worker, I know how much we appreciated it when the leadership team contributed their time as needs came up.
- Lastly, I value the importance of modeling how you expect students and individuals to be treated. We should ALL have very high expectations for that — and if someone is not ‘treating another as they wish to be treated’, I want to provide the guidance necessary to improve that situation.
Can you share a story about one of your greatest work-related struggles? Can you share what you did to overcome it?
There are so many to choose from! But as an example, I do remember many years ago — before I came to Anderson Center for Autism — I was in another residential school setting in which there was an outbreak of chickenpox. There were so many students impacted that it was impossible to have school. The principal called a few of us in to brainstorm how we should handle educating these kids while we were dealing with this chickenpox situation. The first thing that came to my mind was to “meet them where they were” — meaning, go into the houses and help take care of them. But because the philosophy at that particular school was one where people kind of worked in their own “silos,” it never occurred to anyone that the school folks should go help the residential folks. To me, it was simply common sense: we had a shared responsibility to take care of the kids, and whatever the challenge, we had to work together to get them what they needed, including their education. The solution to the problem was so obvious to me, and yet it was almost comical that the others didn’t see that option right away. But I voiced my opinion, and ultimately that was what we chose to do. It was almost three weeks, but we made it happen!
Years later, I was amazed at how the news of a pandemic prompted our team at Anderson Center for Autism to immediately develop and implement a similar plan for doing whatever we had to do to ensure that our students/residents continued to get all of the services they needed despite COVID-19. At Anderson, they did this without giving it a second thought — and it was a reminder that I’m exactly where I should be, surrounded by like-minded people who all understand that we do what we have to do for the people we serve.
What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now?
There’s a LOT, and ALL of it is interesting and exciting! We’re envisioning new, innovative ways to deliver our expertise through training and consulting in a global way. This will allow us to reach so many more people than ever before, offering a greater scope and delivering more impact.
The other thing that I am so excited about at Anderson Center for Autism is the launch of ECHO Autism Anderson, which offers online sessions on a number of topics throughout the year to professionals looking to learn, collaborate, have cases reviewed, or discover ways to deliver evidence-based services to autistic and neurodivergent individuals. All sessions are conducted virtually, and attendees can have questions answered in real time, regardless of their location.
I have had the honor of being part of what we call a “HUB team” who has been working on this since its inception; I get to represent the education and school administration perspective as we have developed and implemented our plans. I am just so impressed with the level of expertise AND the willingness of the participants who call in to help colleagues in the special education community. It’s humbling. I wish that this type of thing existed when I worked as a Special Education teacher; we could’ve helped so many more students. The scope of this project is just amazing; I love seeing people participating from all over the world — England, Thailand — so many people from so many places coming together to figure out how to best support the autistic and neurodivergent population. It is really incredible.
Fantastic. Let’s now shift to our discussion about neurodiversity in the workforce. Can you tell our readers a bit about your experience working with initiatives to include neurodiverse employees? Can you share a story with us?
Anderson Center Consulting and Training (ACCT) provides training — onsite and online — to help businesses and nonprofits of all sizes become more diverse, equitable, inclusive, and accessible. This started many years ago with a grant from Dutchess County, which allowed us to begin our efforts to make workplaces more accommodating right here in our home region of New York State. Now as companies from near and far get on board with DEI, which can be an overwhelming topic, our team at ACCT can be of help. We work to ensure that employers and their teams understand how to develop supportive settings for their autistic and neurodivergent colleagues and customers, and we have already gotten incredible feedback. Our programs are essentially common-sense approaches to inclusion and doing the right thing — whether we are recommending ways to make interviews more autism-friendly or looking at facilities themselves to ensure that there are sensory-safe spaces in which to decompress, we can provide tips that work well and make a difference. And as companies continue to have so many vacancies, we feel good about the many ways we are preparing them to welcome neurodivergent people to their teams. These folks are, in many cases, highly educated and just want an opportunity. Sometimes they struggle with interviews, so that stumbling block is just one of many ways our training can help employers better understand how to make the small modifications needed to move the needle.
Even an advertisement for a job vacancy can be tweaked to be more inclusive. So many ads will say things like “looking for a team player” — or “seeking a good communicator.” But for people who are neurodivergent, those buzz words might feel like a message that says “don’t bother applying” because those aren’t necessarily strengths for them, and yet they would shine in most other aspects of a role. So the language can be more specific; what, exactly, does the employer definitely need from this prospective employee? Think about the wording that is used, and how to cast a larger net inclusive of autistic and neurodivergent employees who have other talents that can be maximized.
Another item I want to mention is that interviews, while tough for everyone, can be especially difficult for this population. Sharing interview questions in advance is a simple accommodation that will allow a fantastic prospective employee the time needed to prepare in advance. It will also help decrease stress and anxiety, which will allow the interviewer to get to know the interviewee better once they meet. You’re not giving away the farm by doing this; you’re simply recognizing that we are all human and each of us deserves a chance to show up as our best selves. For individuals with executive function challenges, answering questions and formulating thoughts and delivering a cohesive answer can be such a struggle; they’re intelligent people but might need more than a few moments to pull everything together and communicate it well. By giving them that chance they can show you what they really have to offer by putting their best foot forward.
This may be obvious to you, but it will be helpful to spell this out. Can you articulate to our readers a few reasons why it is so important for a business or organization to have an inclusive work culture?
There are all kinds of reasons! Data certainly shows that the more inclusive a business or company is, the more favorably customers look at that company. And that’s an interesting thing that most wouldn’t even think of. But I want to highlight the fact that hiring a more inclusive or neurodivergent workforce allows that company to have a much broader array of strengths and perspectives; sometimes that can even lead to a higher level of innovation because of the way some neurodivergent individuals can look at an issue, problem, or product and come up with a way of presenting that nobody else had thought of. It’s also great to have different opinions, backgrounds, and lived experiences within a company; we are all better when we are part of a diverse community of people.
Can you share a few examples of ideas that were implemented at your workplace to help include neurodiverse employees? Can you share with us how the work culture was affected as a result?
Our mission at Anderson Center for Autism is to optimize the quality of life for individuals with autism — and everything we do is driven by that mission.
In our department at ACCT, we are out training people about autism and neurodiversity all day every day, and I felt that we needed someone with actual lived experiences included on our team. So — we now work with an autistic advocate (his name is Andrew Arboe); we send Andrew our training content and ask him to review it, offer suggestions, and make any additions/changes. He also films videos for us to give us a window into his experience, and then we include those in our trainings as well. I’m very proud of the fact that we have added him to our team, but we won’t stop there. I’d like to get to a point someday when we expand to hire someone who identifies as autistic to do the training for us and with us.
I asked Andrew to weigh in on this question too, and he said, “The work culture at Anderson is all about helping others. We reach out to many organizations and make recommendations to help with practices that can help people. We can see on our social media pages that we’re connecting to more and more providers all the time. Getting feedback is good; it keeps me on my toes, but also helps me figure out what to do next.”
What are some of the challenges or obstacles to including neurodivergent employees? What needs to be done to address those obstacles?
I have found that people tend to be afraid of what they don’t know or have experience with. This is why training can be so helpful — my teacher brain always defaults to education!
In a work environment, people are often afraid to admit that they are worried about saying the wrong thing. So the best thing we can do is to educate the workforce — starting with people who are hiring and then as autistic and neurodivergent people move into their actual jobs — it is so valuable to educate and train supervisory staff, management folks, and coworkers/colleagues. That’s so important. You want to make sure that a business or company can build an infrastructure that understands how to support their neurodivergent workforce. The overwhelming majority of supportive practices would be the same as they’d be for any other employees, but understanding the particular challenges of autistic and neurodivergent team members is key. For example, it can be exhausting for them to engage socially, and depending on the work environment, conversations can take up a large portion of their day. So much executive function is required for them to maintain attention, and it takes so much brain power — so they can experience burnout much faster than another employee. But we want them to be as successful as the next employee and so we need to be mindful and have supports in place to give people time to take a break. Just taking a pause allows them to come back with a clear head and be more present to conversations and expectations. If you think about it, an average employee can take breaks mentally throughout the day — whether by checking personal email or seeing what movie is playing online. We all take those breaks without even thinking about it — but sometimes we forget that a neurodivergent person needs the same brain breaks, and may need physical space and some quiet time alone to do that — so we need to make that possible.
Andrew Arboe also added, “I’ve done job coaching in public and private schools, and it is very interesting because there are so many ways to help people. Having good support — like a job coach — can be helpful.”
How do you and your organization educate yourselves and your teams on the concept of neurodiversity and the needs of neurodivergent employees? Are there any resources, training, or workshops that you have found particularly helpful?
There is always a need for professional development for people in our field — we have to be open to everything and open to providing whatever will help autistic and neurodivergent individuals! At ACCT, we are the ones who offer consulting and training to such a diverse group — we go into schools, businesses, the homes of families — anyone who is ready to learn. Every step of the way, we have to be mindful of all the different research and scientific articles that can inform our practice. And the other important piece for us, in addition to continuing our own learning, is to LISTEN to the people for whom we are delivering service. Every training we provide is a product of on-going evolution and improvement based on the feedback we receive from participants. We are proud to use this as our model for further training development and delivery.
Can you please share five best practices that can make a business place feel more welcoming and inclusive of people who are neurodivergent?
- Publicly post that you’re an inclusive work environment and really MEAN it — have the goods to follow up with public statement; be sure you are engaged in ongoing training and building the infrastructure that truly is welcoming and supportive of a neurodivergent workforce
- Cultivate a culture where a neurodivergent or autistic person — or anyone with any type of disability — feels comfortable disclosing OR choosing NOT to disclose. It should be a safe space in which people can make that decision without feeling pressured either way.
- Be sure that supports are available, and that people can openly express their individual needs and requests. We are all different; what will work for one person may not work for another, so it’s key to remember that we are all HUMAN and should feel respected for exactly who we are as individuals.
- Andrew Arboe shared that it’s important to proactively ask about particular sensitivities. “For example,” he said, “some people are sensitive to temperatures. Some don’t like heat, others have a hard time with cold, so you need to ask what environment feels comfortable.”
- Andrew added as our fifth tip, “Set clear expectations. Even something like how people prefer to communicate — email or Teams — find out what works best.” And, he reminded us, giving people a chance to take breaks is really important too.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share a story about how that was relevant in your own life?
One of my favorite quotes is by Thomas More… “You wouldn’t abandon ship in a storm just because you couldn’t control the winds.”
I think these words speak to me because I am very pragmatic and love to figure out solutions to challenges. This mindset has certainly helped me discover how best to teach students who had very complex learning, communication, and behavioral challenges. And many years ago, when my son was just shy of 3 and diagnosed with an aggressive, cancerous brain tumor, that mindset helped me to become educated and access the best possible treatment for him.
You are a person of enormous influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
Wow, the power!
I guess if I had that power I’d just want our communities to understand the value that we ALL bring, whether we are neurodivergent or not. Each one of us has something to contribute — and if we’re just given the right tools and opportunities to do so, we can have a much better world.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
They can learn more on our website: andersoncenterforautism.org, or follow us on social media. Our Facebook page is: https://www.facebook.com/AndersonCenterforAutism; Twitter: https://twitter.com/AndersonAutism; Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andersoncenterforautism/; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/AndersonCenterAutism/videos; and LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/anderson-center-for-autism/.
This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for the time you spent with this. We wish you continued success and good health!